One major difference between the 1992-93 communal riots of Mumbai and that of the 2002 Gujarat riots was that in the former, the state was not directly involved, whereas in the latter, that was not the case. Muslims are deeply culturally, socially and emotionally integrated into the ethos of the Indian state. Way back in 1946, during the elections to constitute the Constituent Assembly to draft the Constitution, hardly 3.6 per cent of Muslims had voted for the Muslim League’s proposal for partition. Why would the Indian Muslim now want to go to Pakistan, argues noted Islamic scholar, Dr Asghar Ali Engineer. He was talking to Prashant Hamine on the eve of the 19th anniversary of the demolition of the Babri Masjid and its aftermath.
You have remarked on this difference between the two riots before. Could you elaborate?
One difference between the two incidents was that in the 1992-93 Mumbai riots, the state was not directly involved. The then Chief Minister (Sudhakarrao Naik) did not give any protection to the community. He himself was terrified. In one instance, he is reported to have told community leaders “Why have you come to me, go to Bal Thackeray”. He should not have said that. It is the duty of the government to have protected the lives of the people. He did not do that.
Whereas in the Gujarat riots, it is alleged that Chief Minister, Narendra Modi publicly made provocative statements that there were Muslims behind the torching of the Sabarmati Express that was carrying Karsevaks. The VHP had given a bandh call and the BJP openly supported it.
The role of the police was similarly biased in the 1992-93 Mumbai riots as the amateur radio recordings of that time placed before the Justice Srikrishna Commission that exposed their partisan attitude. Despite the involvement of PSI Nikhil Kapse in the Hari Masjid firing case during the riots, the CBI gave him a clean chit as the evidence gathered was so weak that no one was arrested in that case.
Do you feel that the politicians were directly involved in these two cases of riots ?
In Maharashtra, Naik did not have any control over the situation. Whereas in Gujarat, the government itself was directly involved. Tehelka had, in its sting operation, revealed as to how the main culprits spoke about how the government was going to offer them full protection and how they were taken away from Ahmedbad to the hill station of Mount Abu.
In the Mumbai riot cases the police did not bring the riots under control, but arrests were made, even if under pressure. The chargesheets also were not filed properly,the charges framed were so weak that no judge could have possibly convicted the accused. Hence most of the cases were closed.
In Gujarat, more than 200 riots cases were closed similarly. It took the Supreme Court to re-open the cases and direct the appointment of a Special Investigating Team. But that too did not do a satisfactory job. Nobody dared touch Narendra Modi.
But the cases of Mumbai riots have also dragged on for years in the courts, while the Gujarat riots cases seem to attract all the attention
The Mumbai riots took place in 1992-93, the Gujarat riots took place in 2002. Here, no one held the government responsible. But there in Modi’s regime, VHP followers were appointed as public prosecutors. In most of the cases, it later turned out that they were related to the accused. Be it the Bilkis Bano case or the Best Bakery case, those cases had to be tried outside Gujarat.
In Mumbai, most of the cases were tried. Then joint commissioner R.D. Tyagi was arrested in the Suleman Bakery case, but later was released on bail after he complained of pain in the chest. Later on he became the Mumbai Police Commissioner. Actually the Srikrishna commission report was never strictly implemented. Otherwise, despite his involvement, PSI Nikhil Kapse was not even suspended as the CBI found no evidence against him from the records made available to them.
According to you how has the community coped up with life after these riots ?
Not entirely happily. There is a big gap between the leadership and the community. Whatever the leadership has done so far has further subdued the community. At a recent convention in Delhi, a progressive community leader was simply not invited. Even though he went, but could do nothing more than express anguish at not being allowed to speak.
What is the way forward for the community now?
Stop the exploitation of communities along religious lines. Differences can be resolved through mutual dialogue. There are 150 million Muslims living in the country. How many will you kill? They can neither go to Pakistan or anywhere else.
Countries have not been formed on the basis of religion. Otherwise you would not have found the community divided into 15 nations in the Arab world. I had an interesting incident that I encountered while I was on tour of Kerala in the district bordering Tamil Nadu. With an interpreter, I visited the house of a 70-year-old lady. She could not understand Urdu, I could not speak Malayalam. When the interpreter introduced me to the lady, she asked him how I could be a Muslim if I could not speak Malayalam! That is how deeply the community is rooted to the Indian ethos and culture.
Have the scars in the community healed?
After the 2002 Gujarat riots many young Muslims argued that they wanted to live in peace and harmony with their Hindu brethren. You may recall recently former vice-chancellor of Darul Uloom in Deoband Maulana Ghulam Mohammed Vastanvi too strongly advocated the need for Muslims to move forward and embrace modern education. The Jamat-e-Ulema-e-Hind had taken out a rally in 2009 to protest against terrorism. Recently I was invited to speak by an organisation in Ahmedabad, which asked me to tone down my views as the community desired peace.
What are your views on the Sachar committee findings?
The Sachar committee findings clearly agree with us that the community has been backward. Sachar made recommendations on opening up Madarsas in
Muslim- dominated localities. Most of the recommendations have been good, but they have hardly been implemented.
It is a big myth that Islam does not encourage education. Who would care even it was the case! Everyone cares for one’s own future and that of his children. Because of their economic backwardness, the community has been educationally and culturally backward. I find many Muslim women who have had hardly any formal education are keen on giving good education to their children. But because they do not have the means to do so they cannot to send their children to school.
You will never find a government school in a Muslim mohalla. Where will the parents get the money to send their children to school?
Do you think that the community has been exploited by the politicians for their narrow gains?
Every election time the government comes up with a plethora of schemes for the minorities. But nothing ever is done. Indira Gandhi had come up with her 20 point programme. Initially she did hold review meetings every three months. But after the 1977 debacle, the implementation too stopped.
In 1978 the government had appointed the Gopal Singh Commission to look into the plight of the community. We discussed a lot and came up with several new initiatives. Most of the Muslim youths are artisans and hence government needed to set up Polytechnics in Muslim localities. Indira Gandhi never tabled the report in the parliament. After V.P. Singh became the Prime Minister, during one of our meetings the issue was discussed. Much to our surprise the Prime Minister was not aware of the fact that such a report ever existed! Again, before the Gopal Singh commission report could be tabled V.P. Singh government was toppled.
The Babri Masjid was a big jolt to the community. They realised that they could not stick to the age-old concepts and needed to move forward. The leadership is also at fault. They have raked up issues for gaining instant leadership status. The Congress has ruled the country for the better part since Independence, but has not come out with any tangible scheme. Hardly 30 per cent of the central allocations for minority welfare schemes have been spent in some states, in others, it is not even one per cent.
It is the NGOs and social leaders who have no craving for power who have taken the lead in peace initiatives. Secularism is the only way forward. It greatly benefits the minorities. It has also sobered down the community much more today.